In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum talks with strategist and thinker Steve Kozel about the tension between our craving for certainty and the messy reality of complex systems. Steve—Director of Strategy and Marketing Technology at Osborne Barr Paramore—shares what he’s learned from years helping organizations make better decisions in conditions that can never be fully predicted.
They explore what strategy actually means (and why the word itself often obscures more than it clarifies), how fear and risk aversion shape corporate culture, and why “best practices” often kill the very innovation they promise to protect. The conversation moves from agency life to complexity science, Plato’s Allegory of the Cave, Ken Wilber’s idea of “transcend and include,” and the cultural fragmentation of modern life. Together, they examine how individuals and organizations can think—and act—more clearly when faced with uncertainty.
Topics Explored:
- The many “altitudes” of strategy — and why most strategists never reach the highest one
- Why true strategy demands choice and risk
- How fear of failure and craving for certainty distort business decisions
- The contradiction of wanting scientific proof while avoiding experimentation
- Lessons from complexity science and why interdependence can lead to stagnation
- The shift from geographic to affinity-based communities and what that means for culture
- Identity, ideology, and the loss of foundational “pace layers” in modern life
- What Plato, Roger Martin, and Ken Wilber can teach us about thinking in systems
Links:
- Steve Kozel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevekozel/
- Richard Rummelt – Good Strategy Bad Strategy: https://amzn.to/3JckbKJ
- Roger Martin – Playing to Win: https://rogerlmartin.com
- Robert Wright – Non-Zero: The Logic of Human Destiny: https://amzn.to/4nOuLXt
For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com
Questions or guest ideas: [email protected]
